My experience with a special oil additive

[The German]

At the end of April I decided to test the former here discussed special German oil additive "Mathy-M" and at the beginning of May I started my test. First step was that I replaced 0.5 litre (10%) of engine oil with the additive. During the next 700 miles the additive should weaken and remove old "caked-on" particles within the engine. After that process those particles are caught by the oil filter and I will replace the complete oil together with the filter, filling the engine with new oil and 10% additive again. The effect that should be reached with this procedure is to clean up the engine´s interior; you can read it in the information of the additive seller : here are 2 links with Google translation to English :
http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.mathy.de%2F&langpair=de%7Cen&hl=de&ie=UTF8
http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.mathy.de%2Fgewerbe%2F index.php%3Fpage%3Dtestdokumentation&langpair=de%7Cen&hl=de&ie=UTF8

Also look to our old discussion here: http://www.buickcenturion.com/forums/showthread.php?t=181&page=2&highlight=additive

Last weekend I drove ca. 450 miles with the mixture. First I noticed nothing. But after 360 miles were driven I suddenly had a loud "ticking" from the engine. I stopped and opened the hood. The sound came somewhere from the drivers side valves of the engine while the engine vibrated much more than it did before. So I stopped the engine and waited 5 min.; then I started it again and nothing had changed. Again I stopped the engine and started it some min. later. This time the noise was reduced a little and I played with the gas running the engine at a bit higher rpm, then lower, then higher and so on. After a while suddenly the ticking was away and the engine was running smooth as I never had it before !!! I waited some min., sometimes playing with the gas again and nothing changed, so that I drove back on the highway. First I drove only slowly but later as fast as before and the car ran normally. Then we came to very slowly traffic with some still standing. It was unbelievable – the vibrations during idling the engine at low rpm I had normally before were gone to a little rest only; sometimes I couldn´t notice from the vibrations that the engine was idling ! It really remembered me to the silence of a cat walking across a street; only the blubbering exhaust nothing else – a very new feeling for me !
Guess there was a caked-on particle that was dissolved by the additive, first blocking the valve´s mechanic somewhere and then swept away and caught by the filter. Of course I had big luck that it came out after such a short time and that I didn´t had greater problems. But now I´m really happy because the engine runs as if it´s another one !

I didn´t fill up the tank after reaching my home again, so that I only know the mileage of the first 300 miles: it was 14.2 mi/gal (16.55 l/100km) compared with 14.8 mi/gal (17.25 l/100km) which I have in average up to now. One can´t compare that really because now I made a long trip on highway and land roads only, but it´s not bad especially because we were in a region with mountains and up to now I only drove the car in flat landscape.

BTW: the oil pressure is 80psi when starting the engine; it comes down to 25 during a few minutes and is at 20 while driving at higher rpm and at 15 at lower rpm. When idling at a still stand of the car and a warm engine the pressure goes down nearly to 0 psi. Guess that all is normal or should it have higher or lower pressure ?
Would like to know what pressure you all think that is normal because my car has an adjustable oil pump (Adams appreciated extra ! ).
Adam, I followed your advice and didn´t change the adjustment since I bought the car from you, but I could do if the pressure wouldn´t be correct. What are your thoughts ? Still okay with this pressure, Adam ?

Conclusion: so far the experience was good. Okay, I had a lot of luck regarding the ticking sound when probably a loosened particle came somewhere into the valve´s mechanism. But now the engine runs at lower vibrations than before, so that I assume this particle was the reason for the more of the vibration before and it´s good that it´s away now.

I´ll keep you posted regarding my further experiences with that additive within the next weeks.

[Smartin]

I've had a couple cars that have low (in gear) idle pressure. Dennis Manner (THE Buick engineer who developed these engines) said that these engines will idle on 2psi all day. As long as the pressure responds to RPM, then you're ok.

There was one time when I had a ticking lifter in that car, and it went away in about 2 minutes of idling. It came out of nowhere, too. I have also had that happen with my 66 Wildcat, which is now in Norway.

[The German]

Thanks, Adam, for your answer. I only wanted to feel sure to have the correct pressure and not walking a risky way driving a long time with a too high or to low pressure.

It´s interesting that you also have had a ticking lifter. May be that the reason for it is not the additive (?), but anyway - the engine runs better now than before and that´s the best result, whatever could have been the reason for.

[The German]

Today I refilled the tank with 79,53 l for 323 miles driven 30% highway, 60% country and 10% town; that is 15,37 mi/gal or 15,30 l/100km. That´s much better than expected because my car was heavy loaded (some extra boxes with wine from the Mosel region ;) and 2 weekend-bags) and half the way we drove through a landscape with midsize mountains ! So I guess that mileage is a result of a cleaner engine where all parts have lower friction now.

Yesterday I replaced the oil with a new product from Millers Oil called "Youngtimer Trident Oil 15W-50" with the API specification SJ which means that it has more ZCCP than oil with the newer specifications; Millers Oil say that they have a content of 1.2% ZCCP in that oil. But I added 12% Mathys additive which also has ZCCP and a similar metal-organic hydrocarbon fluid component with molybdenum to reduce wear and friction at the camshafts, valves, oil pump, timing chain etc.. As you know from my older postings this additive further has anti-corrosion additives (anti-oxidants) and some more to enrich the normal oil in a way that ensures that the oil keep the engine clean and better lubricated than normal. The producers and meanwhile several (in Germany) wellknown testers say an engine could be driven much longer than normal with that mixture. I will test now whether I can find indications which would confirm that, but this will last of course because I´m driving not so many miles a year. They also say that the additive gets more mileage and more engine power (in a test of a German cars magazine they found some 5% more engine power ["Off Road" No. 4/2005] ); I´ll not test the engine´s power but regarding the mileage I´ll look how it will develop – the first result was good, so that I expect the next will be good also, but we will see.

I took a slightly thicker oil because the engine was cleaned up and all its parts now perhaps have more "free" room which could reduce the oil pressure in a hot engine. In fact I had a little bit lower pressure in the last days driving with the first mixture. After changing the oil I drove over 20 miles and found the former pressure levels. So that I´m convinced that the new mix is not totally wrong from this point of view.

Before I began the first step I had an oil colored dark yellow, but now 600 miles later it´s only black. So that´s a good indication that the engine was cleaned up by that additive.

I put 2 drops of oil on a white sheet of paper – 2 drops of the used oil without the additive and another 2 drops of the same oil after I mixed it with the additive for the first part, the 600-miles-test. (BTW: The oil was driven over 1100 miles in Germany until that day and it seemed to be new when I got the car from Adam.) The pictures show a difference: left side the pure oil, right side the mixture. Guess everyone will see the difference: the pure oil seems to be more disperse than the mixture; the mixture is slightly better concentrated. The centre of the pure oil drop spot dried out much earlier than the one of the mix; also this indicates that the mix has a better oil film.

Again I have to say that up to now I´m very pleased with my decision to test this additive and to take that Millers Oil 15W-50. I´ll keep you posted if I´ll find out some more news regarding this topic.

[The German]

Here is the article in the German cars magazine "Off Road" No. 4/2005 regarding the test of the additive : - picture below - ; and here is the translation :

>> Title is "The Oil of Columbus"
Additives are often used in racing. But additives can help normal cars also – "Off Road" tested it. A Toyota Landcruiser HDJ 80 which was driven 300000 km (ca. 190000 miles) should be overhauled. The promise (of the additive): caked-on-particles are dissolved, the nozzles are cleaned (otherwise they had to be replaced), the engine idling during standstill of the car should increase because of lower friction. The procedure: engine oil and all the other oils (transmission, rear axle, servo) are mixed with 10% Mathy-additive, driving 500 km, replace all oils and again filled up with 10-15% additive.
The result was good: the engine was running during standstill like a sewing machine, the transmission worked smooth again. A power-diagram from the Bosch-service brought the confirmation: torque before 348,2Nm, after 365,9Nm; engine power before 110,8, after 116,7kW; power at the wheels before 79,6, after 87 kW. That are nearly 10% more power which is coming to the wheels ! To reach such a result one would have to do a lot more with classic tuning works. ... ... ... Costs: ca. 100 Euro. <<

[Smartin]

Interesting!!

[The German]

After the first 295 miles with the new oil I refilled the tank and found a mileage of 15,8 mpg (14,9 l/100km). Again this is a litte bit better than before :), now driven ca. 70% highway (mostly around 75 mph, but sometimes up to 90 mph), ca.20% town and ca.10% country, all normal loaded, 2-3 persons, no A/C.

[Robroy]

Its pretty interesting results you’ve got from using those special additives Rolf.
Getting down in fuel consumption as well as getting a little extra power by reducing friction doesn’t hurt anybody. My only concern is if it unties too big flaws that could clog an oil channel or lifter :confused4:.

[The German]

Yes, the results are positive until now (better mileage, a little bit less vibration, perhaps - I don´t know - a little bit more power). But you are right, Per, it´s a risk during the first step (driving the first mixture to clean the engine´s interior) and in fact I was anxious to have a big problem when I had this strong ticking in the engine after ca.360 miles (first posting here). On the other hand Adam told us that he had such a sound sometime during normal driving without any experiments.

Guess such particles will come into the oil from time to time and perhaps they are bigger if you have the normal oil; the mix with the additive will get them away before they are growing. But - again - there is a risk during phase 1 of the process. That´s why I hesitated to use this additive and searched for more information first. All I found was that there are serveral people who report their good experience even with older cars of high mileage and also several people who are talking about the same risks as just discussed (particles could clog an oil channel or lifter), the costs and that they don´t believe in the positve results; but I found noone who told something about bad experience he had with it. The argument against the discussed risks is that the particles which come into the oil are not pumped in a cycle, but filtered out because the filter is sitting in the mainsteam of the oil flow. Of course they first have to reach the oil pan and here remains a risk.

I further read the reports about the tests of this additive which were done by the independent German Technical Supervision Institute (TÜV) and some articles of some cars magazines about their tests and about people who tested it so that I came to the knowledge that the risk might exist but would not be as high as discussed by those who are doubtful about that oil additive. For example : the TÜV dismantled the engine of an old Mercedes E 220 D which was driven over 432544 km, ca.320000 km of it without a complete oil replacement (the owner only changed ca. 0,5 litre of the mix with every replacement of the oil filter as it is adviced in the owners manual of that car) and they found that the engine was much less worn out than normal; the engine was reinstalled to the car afterwards !

That´s why I risked it and will test the long time using of the oil mix also so that the costs I had will come back with saving money for fresh oil.

BTW: The most information about the additive is given from the producer of course and everyone could get it from their website or you could order their information papers (but they don´t have these info written in English ! ) .

[MichelHaak]

Rolf, does the motor still runs? :D


a little question from my side (I want to change oil and filter next week), how much litres go in a Buick 455?

[The German]

Rolf, does the motor still runs? :D ... ...

Yes, Michel, as good as I told before ... !


... ... a little question from my side (I want to change oil and filter next week), how much litres go in a Buick 455?

Michel, guess you still don´t have a Service Manual, right ? If so I will send you a copy of such a manual for the 1972 Centurion on a CD as a birthday-present at the end of the week. It could help to find the answer for several questions ! Only write a PM if I should send you this CD.

Now the answer to your question : I needed 4,65 litres for a refill with a new oil filter.

Added: BTW: the manual says 4,73 litres .

[MichelHaak]

Thanks for the message Rolf, I noticed your reply but not the edited one. :p

It would be great if you could sent me the cd, only if you really want to! And thanks for the amount of litres, it's a lot less then I was expecting! At my work, 3,5 litres are necessary for a 1800 cc Fiat engine. So I expected 8 litres for the Buick 455....

by the way, my adress:

Michel Haak

Dorpsstraat 21
4474 AA Kattendijke
The Netherlands

If you want a little compensation, I can drop down some money at paypal.

[The German]

Michel, I´ll send you the CD tomorrow and I´m glad that I could help you, so you don´t have to pay for - take it as a present from a Centurion friend !

BTW:
- I was surprised too when reading that the engine only needs 4.7 litres oil and that also was a reason why I installed the gauges for temp. and pressure. And guess to use a good oil is a must !
- With the 4.65 litres I filled it up until the oil level reached a little bit more than the middle between the marks at the dipstick; so I guess if I would have filled it totally until the upper mark I would have needed the 4.7 litres.

Hope you´ll get your car back on the road soon !

____________________
Added:
Bad news Michel, the file of the Centurion 1972 service manual from my CD doesn´t work any longer, I can´t open it and I can´t get it to a fresh CD; but I sent you a CD with files of the 1972 BODY service manual and with a Pontiac service manual so that you can see how such a manual is made. I anyway recommend you to buy a paper based Service manual because that´s easier to handle ( I have one of 1971 for my car) and it might last longer than a CD. ( Now I loaded the still working files to the hard drive on my PC; I better should have done this earlier.) I also sent you a PM regarding all that.

[The German]

Now my special oil mixture is in the engine since 2008 but has seen only 2300 miles because I only drive the car a few times a year close around my home region here. I only replaced 1 quart of the mixture with new mixture in late 2009 without replacing the oil filter.

Before I started the first ride last Wednesday I took two drops of the oil mixture out of the engine to get it examined. Meanwhile I found out that an oil drop can tell me the important things if I put it on a clean sheet of paper. Here the drop develops a big spot during a few days.

This spot normally is divided into 4 rings as they are to be seen in the following pictures. The center of the spot shows the darkest part and contains all dust and soot and abrasives from the engine; also here is the part of the oil which has the longest molecular chains (the heavy part of the oil). The 2nd ring has the lighter oil which is free from dark particles but also has longer molecular chains. The 3rd ring is the lighter part of the oil which normally has a sharp outer line when the oil is older; I guess that this comes from nano particles of short cracked soot. The 4th ring is to be seen only if the paper is seen against stronger light so that the light shines up through the paper – something like a halo (I hope you will understand what I mean.). This ring is a ring of the non-evaporating part of the fuel which is part of the oil after a longer use of the oil in the engine or if the engine ran often only short time. Then the fuel can´t get out of the oil on higher temperatures fast enough and gets part of the mixture. The line between the 3rd and the 4th ring has a zigzag form because here comes the water to the paper flown through by the fuel. The more zigzag the more water is in the mixture.
The oil spot develops in different ways on different papers as you can see in picture 4. This is a very thin paper which shows a stronger zigzag of the 3rd ring water line than the 1st paper.

What you see in the first 4 pictures is a 0-W40 oil out of my BMW 523i which I bought just a few days ago with 90000 km on the odometer; the oil was last changed in late 2008 and has seen ca. 14000 km. The on-board-computer says that there is long time left until the next oil change !
But when I saw this oil on the paper I knew it has to be changed now because it has too much water and fuel in the mixture ! So I will do that next week.

The next 2 pictures show the oil out of my Centurion. It has seen 2300 miles and is the mixture of 2008 with the additive, meanwhile 1 quart replaced. The oil spot is complete different from what is to be seen from the BMWs oil. One can see clear only the center with the soot, the other rings are running in each other so that they aren´t to be seen as clearly as the BMWs oil ones. Also the outer 4th ring of fuel is very small and nearly not visible. That means that this oil mixture is still good enough for my car: it has only a little bit soot and abrasives, it has a very good oil mixture which is spread from the heavier to the lighter parts without showing sharp differences, it has no water (or the water is caught by the additives) and it has nearly no fuel. With this mixture I will drive at least one further year !

I will do such an examination every 500 miles and if the ring center becomes darker I will change the oil filter and add new mixture to the engine for the part of the old mixture which gets lost with the old oil filter. Only If the rings will show more water or fuel I will replace the whole oil of the engine.

BTW : The mileage mostly varies between 15.8 and 14.4 miles per gallon depending on driving conditions. That´s pretty good and okay for me.

[The German]

Now, nearly a year later, my oil-testing of my Buicks engine oil mixture had the same result. I can´t see a difference so that I don´t post a new picture of this oil-test. Since I wrote my last post here I replaced the oil filter with a K&N Gold filter and also replaced ca. 1 pt. of the oil mixture with this filter replacement. During the year I refilled ca. 1 qt. which was burned away with driving the car.
So now I didn´t replace all the oil since June 2008 (3 years) or 4300 miles. The engine runs good and the oil pressure is normal, so all in all I can´t discover any problems. Guess this will continue until the end of next year. - I will see and inform about further experience here.