Green/green convertible for sale

[johnnybgoode]

Hi guys, I am going to check out a 73 Convertible that is for sale here in Denmark. It was just recently imported from the states.

I would really apriciate any comments on the cars condition based on the few pictures you see here: http://www.smallblock.dk/modules/MyAnnonces/index.php?pa=viewannonces&lid=46722

Thanx in advance

[The German]

Welcome to our group, Johnny !
You found a nice car, only for me in Germany it seems to be too expensive with that price of 12 K€. It has no A/C and probably the conv. top is not in best condition - I would check this carefully first ! The rubber of the rear bumper hangs down on the drivers side, but I guess that´s not a great problem. The car seems to have only little rust but I would inspect its bottom side !

Do you know how many miles it has ? Do you have a list of options ? Perhaps also the VIN could help to find out the cars history.

That´s all I can say because I´m still also a learner regarding looking for details at cars that are shown only by online pictures. So I´m curious about what other members of our group will tell you.
_______________
Rolf

[centurion 455 ragtop]

Welcome Johnny

I agree with Rolf. Check this car over, real good. And don't be afraid to walk away from it. There will be others.

From what I see:

1. The driver side windows (front and back) is up in the photo with the top down. I thought a power window switch or motor, but this car has crank windows. That could be a window track problem. Mine had this problem, a pain in the ass to fix. Or it may be the guy forgot to lower it.

2. The top in a down photo seems uneven. May not be a problem but needs to be checked. Make sure that top goes up and down with no problems and is even. Check that top over REAL CLOSELY. Parts can be costly. The top latches most time are worn and the handles can be broken. In the States here they run around $150 (U.S.C) each. I am sure getting them to you may be more.

3. On the engine shot. Have the guy remove the battery and check out the tray. On the lower left of the shot I can see what looks like rust on the radiator support where the battery tray is. There could be major rust there.

4. Check the front windows. The drivers side does not seem to line up with the top in the up position. Again this is allignment problems and a pain in the ass to repair.

5. Get down under the car and check REAL closely with a flashlight behind the rear wheel wells up under the frame, check for rust and rot. Also if you get serious with buying it, have the guy remove the rear bottom seat. If this top leaked or a previous top leaked, there might be some serious rust holes near the inner rear wheel wells where it is welded to the floor pans.

6. The trunk...no shots of it. Check it real good.

7. Keep in mind this car has almost no options other than the 455 engine. A great barganing tool for you to chew down the price. Check the VIN, there is a letter code that will tell you if it has the high output engine option. (Guys I need help on this, the letter escapes me at this moment) Do this WITHOUT the seller knowing as this is a desired option $$$ and is a plus for the seller if he knows about it.

Like I said look over this car real good and don't be and don't show any excitement when looking at it. NO doubt you should be able to knock down the price. If the seller refuses and objects to you looking under the rear seat or under the car examination, throw him your low ball bid...and WALK AWAY.
No need to buy an over cost car that you will have to dump tons of cash into it. There will be others out there.

Good luck! You never know they may work with you on a lower price just to move the car off their lot.

[centurion 455 ragtop]

I am not sure if I did this correctly but is the price 90000 kr . I tried a conversion and the equates to $17,741 in USC. If I am correct on this, then this car is WAY over priced.

[Smartin]

I remember seeing this car on ebay some time ago...and it was one more than once.

[The German]

Johnny, perhaps you could contact the seller of this one :
http://www.buickcenturion.com/forums/showthread.php?t=518
Click on "Link".

Looks good too, has more options and the price is low ! On the other hand it seems as if you would have some work - but ask the seller for details. May be Michel could help you (?).
_____________
Rolf

[Robroy]

I am not sure if I did this correctly but is the price 90000 kr . I tried a conversion and the equates to $17,741 in USC. If I am correct on this, then this car is WAY over priced.
Rick, your conversion from danish crowns (DKK) to USD seems correct, but the price 90 000 kr is not at all un-normal on the Scandinavian market for a full-size classic American car IF its in good condition. A 73 is however probably on of the last years to be interesting….

Check this thread for more info on the subject…specially the two links to the dealerships at the end of post #7, divide with 6,5 to get to American dollars
http://www.buickcenturion.com/forums/showthread.php?t=530

[EEE]

Looks like there are "texture" marks in the paint on the inner fenders and core support, someone could have just shot over it with a can of paint. Bring a magnet and cloth and check for bondo in the quarter panels/ lower section of fenders.

[centurion 455 ragtop]

Rick, your conversion from danish crowns (DKK) to USD seems correct, but the price 90 000 kr is not at all un-normal on the Scandinavian market for a full-size classic American car IF its in good condition. A 73 is however probably on of the last years to be interesting….
]


I have a question which is sort of related to this thread. If the market demands a higher price in Countries as with Denmark. Then I would ask this to our European friends or maybe Adam and Rolf may be able to answer this; What would be the average cost on importing a full size 4600 pound car? Reasons being is if a car such as the one listed in this thread goes for let us say $7,000 USD, if the cost on importing it and converting it to street legal in the country to be shipped is say $ 3,000, well then it may be better to buy in the States and have it imported.

Just wondering as I have no clue on the importing fees and of course problems that may happen.

[Robroy]

I have a question which is sort of related to this thread. If the market demands a higher price in Countries as with Denmark. Then I would ask this to our European friends or maybe Adam and Rolf may be able to answer this; What would be the average cost on importing a full size 4600 pound car? Reasons being is if a car such as the one listed in this thread goes for let us say $7,000 USD, if the cost on importing it and converting it to street legal in the country to be shipped is say $ 3,000, well then it may be better to buy in the States and have it imported.

Just wondering as I have no clue on the importing fees and of course problems that may happen.
Most people around here ship their US-cars in sea containers. In my case I paid 2200 USD for a half container (40 foot) from Los Angeles to south Sweden. From the east cost I think it would have been around 2000.
To that you need to add the land transport unless you’re so lucky to find your car in one of the port cities, in my case it was 1000 USD from Kennewick WA to LA (I had hoped for Seattle but they strongly advised me to avoid that port for shipping cars).

For cars older than 30 years you get away with a 12 % tax on the purchase price, sea shipping and insurance (25 % the normal rate :p ), this is for Sweden and can be different in other European countries.
Then there is the cost for getting it through the customs and registrations etc.

For me the total cost ended up at 4800 USD (7 SEK/USD) which was a lot more than I paid for the car itself. But I don’t regret it, not for one second :D

[MichelHaak]

wow you paid not more than 4800 for the car? If I can sell my car for 8000 euros i get one from the states. :Brow:

[centurion 455 ragtop]

Real interesting information here.

So for giggles and sh1ts let's round it off to 5,000 USD on import, insurance and other fees. Now let us take the car in question in this thread. In USD it's over $17,700, take $ 5,000 off that price and you have $12,700 for that car in USD had it be in the States for sale. I would have to go out on the limb and say, no way that car would be worth $12,000 in the States. It is way over priced.

Comparing, you may find a nicer car (same model '71-'73) with a ton of options for under $12,000 USD. So let us say you find a nice one for $8,000 in the States. Add that $5,000 of estimated import fees, and you are still way under the asking price on the car listed in this thread.

I would definintely use this as a barganing tool on chewing down the asking price on the Centurion listed on this thread.

[Robroy]

The dealerships that have these kind of cars as speciality often ask for more than the cars worth, even here. I think they base their business on peoples fear for doing the import their self with all the paperwork, waiting etc and of course the most important, they can see and test drive what their buying.
Depending on the demand for a specific model, there is always room for some bargaining since the vender is interested in getting his money back without waiting too long...

[The German]

... ... For me the total cost ended up at 4800 USD (7 SEK/USD) which was a lot more than I paid for the car itself. But I don’t regret it, not for one second :D

I read your import cost discussion just now and found that there is a greater differance to my costs compared with Pers:
- Transport St. Louis to east coast : 610 US$
- Transport in a container (2 cars) across the Atlantic to Rotterdam : 1030 US$
- Harbour and duty : 660 US$
- Tax : 260 US$ (import a historic car to the EU has much cheaper duty and tax in NL and Belgium)
- Preparation for the inspection (Lamps and front axle) : 340 US$
- Inspection of the car to get the historic licence : 550 US$
_____________________________________
total : 3450 US$ ( at 1,25US$ / € )

Compared with prices in Germany for such a car I saved between 2 and 4 kUS$ - but Centurions are very seldom for sale here.
___________________
Rolf

[johnnybgoode]

Thanx everyboddy for the fast and informative reponses you have given me. There is some pretty good and solid advice in these posts. I will let you know more about this car when I go check it out on wedensday.

If you look at this Centurion as just another big-block fullsize american convertible, then 90K in danish crowns is an OK price, but if you know the prices in the states, then this dealer is making a huge profit.

I would say that a Centurion like this, varies a great deal in the prices in the states, for instance there is right now two completed listings on ebay, one that sold at $3500 and one that didn't sell at $8000, and they look kinda comparable.

When I judge these pictures I would say this dealer bought it for around $4 - 6K, am I way out of the ball park on that ? add another $3000 for in land transport and seafare/containerfreight and danish customs, I think he is looking to scoop up minimum 6 large ones on this deal :confused4:

We will see have it goes, I will let you know !

[centurion 455 ragtop]

When I judge these pictures I would say this dealer bought it for around $4 - 6K, am I way out of the ball park on that ? add another $3000 for in land transport and seafare/containerfreight and danish customs, I think he is looking to scoop up minimum 6 large ones on this deal :confused4:

We will see have it goes, I will let you know !

If this is the case then a good dealership knows he can play with the asking price. At $6,000 or about that much on the profit side he may feel to get a quick sale, to move the car off his lot, he may very well come down on the price.

I know by doing it yourself you can save money, on the flip side it's the worries and hassles on finding someone in the States that can look at the car and of course going through all the importing hassles. Sometimes it's just worth paying extra money and being done with it getting the car in one day and driving her home.

I would really look over the car. DON'T LOOK OVERLY EXCITED, throw him a low ball amount, and be ready to walk away. Call his bluff, see if he will come down on the price. I would think he would. Leave your number so that he MAY reach out to you trying to meet common grounds on an adjusted price.

Good luck and let us know how you made out.

Oh one last advise: Like Kimson said bring a good magnet. I use a plastic refrigerator magnet so it won't scratch the paint. If there is an area it doesn't stick I would then ask some more questions. Also inside the trunk check down low on the inside quarters for any signs of body repair. All this just adds in your favor on chewing down the price.

[dewbers]

Hey Johnny - Chris (Cole d) is selling his drop top on this site. I can't remember the heading, but go look! Says something about Christmas I think?
Can't recall, but it shouldn't be hard to find. Wants like $4000 for her. Add shipping and you may still save some money?

Good luck!

[johnnybgoode]

7. Keep in mind this car has almost no options other than the 455 engine. A great barganing tool for you to chew down the price. Check the VIN, there is a letter code that will tell you if it has the high output engine option. (Guys I need help on this, the letter escapes me at this moment) Do this WITHOUT the seller knowing as this is a desired option $$$ and is a plus for the seller if he knows about it.

Thanx again guys, I completely forgot about the above comment. Was this engineoption the same as Stage 1 option for the 73 Riviera ?

[centurion 455 ragtop]

Thanx again guys, I completely forgot about the above comment. Was this engineoption the same as Stage 1 option for the 73 Riviera ?

Yes

[johnnybgoode]

Sorry guys for the late reply, and thanx again for all your help.

I went to the dealer, but the car was not as expected, or at least not as good as the pricetag would let you to believe, far from !!

It was a good car, with a decent paint, the original I believe, as was the interior. Apart from the big engine it had absolutly no option, not even a clock.

It looked like the car hadent moved under its own power for a very very long time, the waterpump was complely shot, it was desperatly needing some attention everywhere, the mufler had blown wide open at some point (Why? :confused4: ) and the tires where old.

It could become a very nice car if you threw some money at it, but absolutly not at that price.

There was a folder in the trunk with a lot of old paperwork, amongst other things the original buildsheet, which I thought some of you would find interesting, I uploaded a fullsize picture of it, so you can better see all the details (probably only for the broadband connected ;) )

http://www.roadmaster.dk/images/Buildsheet.JPG

Here is a few pictures I took that day.

http://www.roadmaster.dk/images/SSL22481.jpg

http://www.roadmaster.dk/images/SSL22471.jpg

http://www.roadmaster.dk/images/SSL22470.jpg

http://www.roadmaster.dk/images/SSL22483.jpg

http://www.roadmaster.dk/images/SSL22485.jpg

http://www.roadmaster.dk/images/SSL22465.jpg

http://www.roadmaster.dk/images/SSL22466.jpg

http://www.roadmaster.dk/images/SSL22467.jpg

http://www.roadmaster.dk/images/SSL22463.jpg

Enjoy, and thanx again :xyxthumbs:

[centurion 455 ragtop]

The exterior cleaned up nice. Did Adam go over seas with his buffer?:) That exploded muffler could have very well come from a jumped timing chain or a broken timing gear. The original ones are plastic. The timing could have jumped and persistant cranking and all of a sudden baa boom, huge back fire. Could be some major engine work unless the guy can get it running and show ya.

It does look like it was sitting for quite some time. I would wonder what the trunk pan looks like with the trunk carpet pulled up.

Like I said before, and you had mentioned in your post: If you really want the car and the dealer can get it to run and idle give him your low ball amount not his asking amount, that is way too much. And do not budge on your offer, don't worry others will come along in the future. Plus you never know a few weeks may pass and you may get a phone call from them if it doesn't sell. Good luck with the hunting, I am sure you will find a good one.:xyxthumbs:

The VIN: 4P67T3X045150


4 - Buick
67 - Convertible
T - Standard 455 engine option single exhaust
3- year of vehicle, 1973
X - Plant it was made at, Farfax, Kansas

045150 is the production run number. I would guess to say it was an early model year car.

I'll take a stab at the color which seems to be Willow Green; service code 44

[Bob Alberini]

Thanks for posting the build sheet, Johnny. I've gathered all the information and will submit it for this car in case it has not been submitted.

One slight correction. The VIN is 4P67T3X114931 and it is the body number that is 045150. From the look of the build sheet, the car was built October 5, 1972, Rick. Aside from the 455, that is almost as bare bones as it could be.

[Smartin]

I exploded my mufflers on the way home from picking up the Formal Coupe. The carburetor was basically dumping raw fuel down the chute, and it collected in the mufflers. When it got hot/mixed right, it went KABOOOOM!!!!!!

Blew both of them to pieces. The cars behind me eased back for a while after that.

[centurion 455 ragtop]

One slight correction. The VIN is 4P67T3X114931 and it is the body number that is 045150.

:Dou: grabbed the wrong production numbers, thanks Bob for the correction.