72 Centurion Convertible 42k miles

[Smartin]

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Buick-LeSabre-1972-BUICK-CONVERTIBLE-48296-ORIGINAL-MILES_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ6138QQihZ011QQite mZ320159349116QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW

[73 Centurion]

It's a Centurion and they've listed it as a LeSabre! That's like listing a GS as a skylark.

Interesting to see power windows but no A/C.

John

[RFortuna]

They also claim original paint, but for some reason the front wheel well mouldings are gone.

[dewbers]

I have power windows, but no air. It's drives me freaking nuts on those in between days when you'd like some air...... Bet it would be a pain the arse to get air on her?!?!?!

Pretty good looking Centurion though. I like it.

[73 Centurion]

There certainly is a mini flood of LeSabre's and Centurions for sale recently. This is always the time of year to buy a convertible. People have had their summer fun and are now freaked about storing it for the winter.

It can be done 2 ways. You can get an aftermarket unit and add it which is easy and effective and ugly (in my opinion) or you can install a factory system which is difficult, painful and if you do it right no one will know all of the effort you put in because it looks like the car was born that way. Guess which way I went?

Here is my thread on it:

http://www.buickcenturion.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2704#post2704

John

[The German]

There certainly is a mini flood of LeSabre's and Centurions for sale recently. This is always the time of year to buy a convertible. People have had their summer fun and are now freaked about storing it for the winter. ... ...
John

But not all cars are convertibles ;could that flood be also a first wave coming as a result of the increasing price for oil / gas ???:rooleyes2: How is your feeling about that influence on the market in the US for those big gas guzzlers like ours ? It would be interesting for me - perhaps for all of us - to get some thoughts about that topic here !
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Rolf

[73 Centurion]

In the U.S. there is a 30 year cycle. Cars are popular for 5-10 years, daily drivers for 10 years and beaters/customizer material for 5-10 years. For the survivors the value goes up right around the 30th year.

Convertibles always hold their value the best and begin going up in value first. Two doors follow and 4 doors rarely get much attention. Wagons seem to follow a strange pattern where they are the fall back after a family trend. You couldn't give away a wagon during the mini-van craze, they became interesting when that died down, but faded again with the SUV craze. Now SUV's are passing and wagons are rising again.

I bought my Centurion nearly 2 decades ago for $900 as a non-running lawn ornament. At that time early 70's cars were the height of un-fashionable. Now they are selling between $7-$15k.

John

[The German]

In the U.S. there is a 30 year cycle. ... ...
John

That´s nearly the same in Germany. - But now we are entering a new age: the oil price reaches higher levels than ever before and it seems that the price will pass the $100/b soon; not only the costs for gas are higher and higher, also the image of those gas guzzlers could turn to the worse. And the question is how this development will press on the car prices in the next years.

I don´t know how the discussion about energy price development could have first results to that extent that more and more people will sell their great cars even when they don´t drive them a lot of miles per year. In Germany fuel is much more expensive than in the US and in the last months I saw some offers where car sellers said that they had had plenty of fun with their great car which they want to sell now but they want to turn to be reasonably and to change to a car with smaller thirst ! (Of course that´s not a good argument for a seller but honestly.) I guess that this reason to sell a big block car will be more often in future and on the other side the amount of buyers of such cars will reduce.

What is your expectation regarding that effect ?
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Rolf

[Robroy]

What is your expectation regarding that effect ?

Here in Sweden the raising gas prices also have an affect on the market for bigger cars, but only on the daily drivers like large Volvos, BMW, Mercedes and especially on the SUV’s and Jeeps.
The old American classic cars hobby is bigger than ever and these people don’t really seem care so much about gas prices, they are so addicted and drive so little during a year anyway. The hobby has very strong roots here in Scandinavia since 30-35 years back.

[The German]

Last weekend I visited a meeting of old classic cars and I asked several owners of bigger cars whether they would sell their cars if the oil price increases to a more higher level than $100/b. The most answers were that they would not sell their cars even if the price would double. So it seems that the higher gas prices are without any effect on the car prices of our large cruisers !:xyxthumbs:

I guess I was too early with that expectation; I learned that this hobby has stronger roots also in Germany than I expected.
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Rolf

[Smartin]

I don't know why people don't bother to at least CLEAN the engine compartment before taking a picture of it. I know I might be a little judgemental when it comes to this, but can they just hose off the dust or something? They go through all the trouble of doing a nice detail job on the paint and interior, but can't lift a finger to wipe off the layers of road grime that has collected since whoever it was BOMBED the engine compartment with black paint. I really hate that, too.:rant:

[Robroy]

I don't know why people don't bother to at least CLEAN the engine compartment before taking a picture of it.
See what you mean, the engine compartment looks like they have been driving through a desert even though the rest of the car is cleaned up.
What surprises me is that they don't bother to keep track of what model they are listing :rooleyes2:

[Bob Alberini]

This one is strange. I requested the VIN when the car was offered the first time (as a LeSabre originally just like now) and was told by the seller that he was listing the car for a friend and to call him for details. I did just that and the VIN the guy had was incorrect (it had a 1 where it should not have been and no assembly plant letter). He told me that he gave this guy all the info but it didn't get put on. He also had a 72 LeSabre Custom coupe running and it was about the same story. Since the car is a PA car, I made the assumption, which could certainly be wrong, that the car was Wilmington built so the VIN would be: 4P67T2Y126392. If it is Kansas City built, there would be an X where the Y is but the guy I spoke with didn't seem very knowledgable. It is a very low optioned car with: rear defogger, cornering lamps, power windows, tinted glass, remote control mirror, custom seat belts, protective side molding and whitewalls. It DOES NOT have air. And why are both front wheel opening moldings missing? If anyone is serious, I would suggest they also speak with the owner. He is a nice man but getting more information could be a challenge.

[The German]

We had a short discussion here regarding the question whether the rising price of crude oil and following of refined gas for cars also could bring some pressure on the price level of these full-sized cars. We ended up with getting the feeling that older cars are not met by this development.

But just now I read page 94 of the new magazine "Collectible Automobile" (Dec. 2007) : "... It´s a buyers market for big Buicks, perhaps because of $3 gas. You can effort to be very choosey."

That was my feeling also: excellent cars are still sold for high prices but "only" good ones feel that pressure (remember the latest offers and deals at ebay). On the other hand real enthusiasts of those big cars are not in this trend – of course. But the long-time-owner could get another feeling and could be brought to sale his "guzzler". We will see how the market will develop ... .
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Rolf

[The German]

That´s an interesting new argument, Keith! You could be right and we are in the time just before that new trend that "more and more people are looking at our type cars". Some people sell their cars following the trend of saving energy and some change from pure muscle cars to our kind of cars. Finally the prices are going higher.

Only I don´t know how the feeling of the mass of people could turn with a further rising gas price. In these days several people are in discussion about how to reduce their part of producing green house gases. Al Gore and the UN's Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change won the 2007 Nobel Peace Prize and the media are reporting how to reduce oil and gas consumption. Other steps were that the first hybrid powered cars appeared and GM had great problems to sell the fleet of great cars with high gas consumption. Look to the article about the Buicks of 1971 – 1976 in the last "Collectible Automobile"; the effect of high gas price on peoples behaviour of that time returned and could struck old cars also – not in the same strong way as it hits the new cars market of course, but we could feel it also – even the muscle cars market.

All this is speculation of course – but that´s what I love! And if you are right you can earn money with it. So my insurance for this year was to buy some shares of Petro China, Fording Canadian Coal and some others in January, so that the increasing energy prices came along with earnings in these shares.

Thanks, Keith, for sharing your thoughts to this topic again! Really interesting – isn´t it?! Guess you are right for the nearer future because the oil price reached such high a level that it could rush down a greater step soon and then stop the gas price caused sellers of big Buicks while the others want to buy more of them... ! And for me that´s the reason why I began selling those shares now. An interesting time for us !:)
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Rolf

[The German]

We often can learn a lot about those differences of these politicians ... !
Also very interesting ... !!
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Rolf

[Robroy]

Speaking of fuel consumption, what is considered to be normal for a Centurion with 455 cid?
Keith mentioned 16-17 mpg which I assume mean miles/gallon?
In metric that would be 13.84 liter/100 km if I got it right?

Think I need to give my engine a good look over this winter since I seldom get under 20 liter/100 km :rooleyes2:

[The German]

Per, I´m between 19.3 and 16.5 l/100km or 12.2 and 14.2 mpg - up to now ! But mostly I drove through towns and over land roads, only a few miles on highways. So I guess I could reduce consumtion when driving a longer distance at constant speed only on highways.
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Rolf

[Robroy]

This is my first big block car so I don’t really have any reference but I figured that it would be possible to run on 17 mpg under optimal circumstances, that is open road, constant speed no air etc, just as you say Keith…

[Robroy]

Per, I´m between 19.3 and 16.5 l/100km or 12.2 and 14.2 mpg - up to now ! But mostly I drove through towns and over land roads, only a few miles on highways. So I guess I could reduce consumtion when driving a longer distance at constant speed only on highways.
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Rolf

Thanks for sharing Rolf!
I failed to spot your post yesterday :o

[RFortuna]

I was stunned to get 18.2 MPG in the green four door, while on a trip this summer. That was all freeway, A/C off, cruise set on 70. I still had to do the math twice to believe it. It has a pertronix electronic ignition rather than points. I wonder if that helps?

Randy

[Robroy]

18 mpg is 13 liter/100 km which really is good for a big block car that size! :shocked:

I once had an Impala 66 with 283/PG running on 18-19 mpg, but that’s a smaller car with a lot smaller engine.

With a TH700 (4-speed) transmission I bet you could kick it down to 20-22 mpg. The 455 has lots of torque and can probably cruise almost idling. It would also increase the comfort and drivability of the car.
The flip side of the coin would be that the TH700 probably couldn’t handle all that torque, also from what I’ve heard it’s not so robust as the good old TH400 which I’m told is solid as a rock.
It would also be a major step from the original design. Can’t help thinking about one car on which I went from PG to TH350 though, it was a LOT more fun to drive with TH350 :rolleyes: