Passenger Remote Mirror: for '75, onto '71: Where to Install Joystick?

[SBRMD]

Hey Guys,

Obtained the mrror as above; I distinctly remember seeing a thread, either here or on V8Buick, or maybe BCA, which actually depicted how someone (Rolf? Steve?) rigged up the joystick under the dash or through the ashtray area. Searched all three sites, couldn't find it. Can anybody point me, or tell me how they did it?

Thanks in advance,
Steve in Mpls.
"LeCenturion"

[Gum,beest]

Hi Steve
It was on this site but before the previous update by Adam
So all the pictures got lost that time
I can't remember who's threat it was
But i remember that the joystick from the mirror should be mounted in place of the Trip / speed alert knob left of the radio it would bolt right in
The trip / speed alert should be mounted strait down on the dash near where your knee would be
But the member that you speak of has indeed mounted the joystick from the mirror some where near the astray
I think it would be the easiest to make a bracket witch holds the "knuckle" from the mirror and has holes in it to mount it near the ashtray

[The German]

Steve, you remember right - I installed such a mirror :
http://www.buickcenturion.com/forums/showthread.php?1209-Easy-and-cheap-repairs-vinyl-rubber-seals-and-window-adjustment&p=9697#post9697

I only let the joy stick hang under the dashboard without any bracket because it´s not needed so very often and no one can see it; this way it looks like a stock mirror for that car - one without the remote function. When I need the stick I pull it out for adjustment of the mirror and push it back again.

BTW : the photos only showed the mirror - nothing which could help you. But down here is the installing sheet for mounting the joy stick to the correct location if you would prefer that.

Hope this will help you !

[SBRMD]

Thanks Erik and Rolf, just what I was looking for. Diagram is very helpful!

Rolf, I would like to leave the thing unmounted like you did, it's bviously the easiest thing to do, but two things concern me: rattling sounds from unfastened hardware, and possible slippage, such that it'll dangle visibly under the dash. May I ask: where exactly do you leave it? Is there a "parking place" for it, from which it doesn't move? Also, when you take it out to use it, how do you remember which side is up? Do you have any pics of all this? I went to your link, but those pics are gone...

My car doesn't currently have speed alert/trip odo, but I have the assembly to install at some point, and would rather have those controls on the dash, in the usual place left of the radio. Would rather put the mirror in the "down" position, where the trip odo alternately goes in the drawing. Do you guys think the cable is long enough to do that? And by the way, where do you route the cable within the dash? Is there a "trough" for it behind there, where maybe other wires now course?

[Gum,beest]

Steve
Why don't you try working back wards
I mean
start with making a bracket or modify yours then if you mount the mirror and route the cable you must remove the dash pad
At that time you can see how much room there is and the best place to mount your bracket
Believe me there is plenty of room and mounting positions on the underside of the dash witch you can see from above and hide from plain view
A bit of advice
if you remove the dash pad take your time and don't force anything
It is held in place at 7 positions
Two under the dash cluster on the driver side (remove the plastic cover witch's holds the vent opening under the steering wheel) three behind the Centurion logo on the passenger side and two above the glove box (you can reach all five of them throe the glove box with a 1/4" socket 3 speednuts and two normal)

[The German]

Steve, I fixed the cable with a twisted wire only so that it can be moved easily but keeps its place if pushed back. The joystick is placed directly behind the lower L-formed end of the metal under the dashboard. There is no rattling noise or something like that if the engine is running or during driving the car.

I don´t remember in what direction the joystick will move the mirror, so every time I have to use it I have to find out which direction is the one I need but that is not a problem b/c its really seldom that I have to adjust the mirror.

The old photos which were shown in the old thread only showed the mirror - nothing else, that´s why I told you "... nothing which could help you." I have no photos of the place where the joystick is but I´m convinced that you can imagine how it looks if you look under your dashbord - the joystick is a little bit left of the steering column.

The cable surely is long enough to reach the right dash insert - it´s made for this ending. At your 71 car you would have to drill a hole into the dash insert which means to destroy it from its original design. - I would long time think about if you really should do that : if done there is no way back or you find another replacement dash insert, Steve.

For routing the cable through the dash you have to search for your own way, I can´t give some advice for that. I did it by lieing under the dash and pulling the mirror cable step by step in the direction I wanted to get it ended (without removing any dash parts).

Good luck, Steve !

[SBRMD]

Thanks guys, this is all very helpful.

Rolf, the reason I wondered about the length of the cable is that you say you have it to the LEFT of the steering wheel, which is farther than the positions to the RIGHT of the wheel pictured in the diagram. I'm certainly not surprised though, the cable of this thing looks really long!

[The German]

Thanks guys, this is all very helpful.

Rolf, the reason I wondered about the length of the cable is that you say you have it to the LEFT of the steering wheel, which is farther than the positions to the RIGHT of the wheel pictured in the diagram. I'm certainly not surprised though, the cable of this thing looks really long!

If the cable is installed to the dashboard you have to go higher and you have to bring it into a curve which enables the end looking straight out of the dash, Steve, while I have it nearly at the same hight of the doors opening from which it goes into the car and there is no curve ! So the cable ends LEFT of the steering column instead of RIGHT of the steering wheel if installed into the dash where the radio is !

[My3buicks]

This is the kind of stuff that really frustrates me. Future owners, onlookers at car shows, etc, will see this modification. The big deal is things like this end up with people thinking it is accurate and correct for a Centurion or a Buick of this vintage. This is how authenticity is lost. There are so many similar owner enhancements that this scenario happens in, such as addition of the Buick Sport steering wheel in inappropriate years and models. Another biggie is the addition of the beautiful Buick chrome wheels on cars that they were not optional on. This all just helps to destroy authenticity now and in the future.

I realize it is the owners car and they can do with them what they want, but if I had a dollar for every time I have heard an owner telling someone that there modification was correct to the car I would be wealthy.

[SBRMD]

Here's the thing: what I do to my car has absolutely nothing to do with what you do to your car, and that includes the fallacious assertion that it somehow "destroys authenticity", meaning the authenticity of a correct car. That's just silly. People who know what is correct for a given car (you, me, many others on this board) will know that I modified the car; other more ignorant people may not, but really, what difference does that make to anybody? You car is a 100% authentic specimen (at least, it better be after you say things like this) and I think that's great. I have other cars that I am keeping "original", but my '71 is a LeSabre 4 dr sedan without much collector value, and therefore I have reserved it as the car that I can mess with, Svengali-like, which brings me pleasure and is really none of your business. Further, I personally have no intention of representing the car as "authentic", and I would prefer that you not tar me with the same brush that wishes to collect a dollar for each misrepresentation you encounter.

[My3buicks]

AS I said, I realize car owners can do with them want they want - but if you think for a second that these alterations will not affect authenticity of other cars down the road, then you are sadly mistaken. I have been in the hobby for 30 years, including many years as a BCA tech advisor and national judge. Many that restore or buy a car ASSUME what is on the car is correct and authentic, thus they pass the car off as such. I gave a couple examples of some major items that are becoming mainstream on the cars and most people would think they are proper and correct. An example, you put a 72 Electra on a show field with Chrome Buick wheels and the majority of people would think they are correct and sadly many judges, just because it's been done more and more over the years. It's not that you have altered yours that I am concerned about, it's those restoring the next one, or buying one and assuming everything is correct that I am concerned about - as without any doubt, that is destroying authenticity of these cars.

We sit back and watch all these beautiful cars being destroyed with the wild custom paint jobs, interiors etc, and if those of us that do care to see these cars in there PROPER CORRECT AUTHENTIC presentation don't give out opinions then eventually we will have more destroyed cars representing the make than proper cars. It's your car do what you like, but don't expect me to sit back and not give my opinion, you may well feel the same about my car and I will take your opinion with the same grain of salt that you take mine.

In the end, this simple modification is perpetuating an incorrect assumption of what is correct down the road.

[SBRMD]

I will fight for your right to have any opinion you want, even if it's wrong. And I don't expect you not to give your opinion. By the same token, you should not expect to say whatever you feel like, and not be called out for it.

Your assertion about the threat to authenticity is flat out wrong, and the sadness is for your mistake, as a person who claims such credentials in the hobby and occupies office in the club. To claim that road wheels on an Electra, which was not originally available as such, harms the authenticity of an Electra with the correct hubcaps, or the authenticity of a Riviera with it's originally available road wheels, is illogical. The cars came a certain way, and there is copious reference material to back that up. It is the responsibility of the club to make sure judges are trained correctly. Your responsibility. If a judge at a BCA meet has a wrongheaded notion, after seeing a few, that Electras were available with road wheels, it's on the club for letting that happen, not on the guy who has the road-wheeled Electra; it is patently ridiculous to claim that the incorrect Electra with the wheels, or the ignorant judge affects the authenticity of the correct car. Frankly, to put down others, claiming that they are affecting the authenticity, therefore value of your car because they choose to option up a similar car in a non-original way, is offensive. And don't expect me, or others you offend, to sit back and not say anything about it either.

[My3buicks]

Offensive possibly, do I care, no - do I respect your right to do what you want with your car, yes. Will I continue to point out things like this, yes.

Your comment "Your assertion about the threat to authenticity is flat out wrong" has no merit.

Another good reason there needs to be a more than just one "thread" for Modified Buicks.

[SBRMD]

Incidently Rolf, thanks for the explanation of the length and route of the cable, that's very helpful.

[SBRMD]

Offensive possibly, do I care, no - do I respect your right to do what you want with your car, yes. Will I continue to point out things like this, yes.

Another good reason there needs to be a more than just one "thread" for Modified Buicks.

That's the problem, you're offensive and you don't care. On top of the fact that you're just plain wrong. And you obviously don't respect another's right to modify his car, because you claim that such action somehow damages other cars, hence your car. It is attitudes and behaviors like this that are injurious to the club, creating an unwelcome and judgemental (in the worst sense of the word) atmosphere. Much more harmful to the club than say, an Electra with inauthentic road wheels.

I suggest you find a different quote for the bottom of your signature, because you certainly don't follow your own advice.

[SBRMD]

Offensive possibly, do I care, no - do I respect your right to do what you want with your car, yes. Will I continue to point out things like this, yes.

Your comment "Your assertion about the threat to authenticity is flat out wrong" has no merit.

Another good reason there needs to be a more than just one "thread" for Modified Buicks.

And while we're at it, who appointed you the policeman of what's discussed in which threads? Should Adam mark the forum category "Body" as "For discussion of authentic Buicks only, no discussion of non-authentic modifications allowed"?

Absurd.

Maybe you should have your own board, where you can have things just as you want them.

[My3buicks]

Your opinion, my opinion plain and simple. Yes I can say to you "YOU'RE JUST WRONG" just as you are saying to me. I said this type of thing frustrates me - I didn't say you can't do it - I did say "I realize it is the owners car and they can do with them what they want"

There is room for everyone's tastes on a forum, but they need to be kept from blending what's authentic and what is not plain and simple. Other forums have very much outlined areas for various segments of the hobby, maybe we should also.
I guess that is one really positive aspect of clubs like the AACA - there is no tolerance for non-authentic vehicles - they strive to uphold and maintain cars as they were originally meant to be.

[My3buicks]

And while we're at it, who appointed you the policeman of what's discussed in which threads? Should Adam mark the forum category "Body" as "For discussion of authentic Buicks only, no discussion of non-authentic modifications allowed"?

Absurd.

Maybe you should have your own board, where you can have things just as you want them.


I would love to see more of a breakdown as even such forums as the "BuickV8" site have. I can also assure you that there are many others on the forum that would like to see more of a breakdown and who also share my thoughts on authentic versus modified.

[73 Centurion]

I have to say for a fundamental disagreement, this is one of the most polite and respectful interactions I've ever seen on any discussion board.

Buick Class at its' finest.

John

[75RivGS]

My 72 Wagon has a '74-up (remote) passenger side mirror. The stick is mounted on the trip set/speed alert place (which now hangs loose behind the dash bezel). Luckily I found a non-remote mirror; as said before by Steve: you don't need to alter the position of that mirror (since I'm the only driver, although it is the car of my GF... but that's another story :) ) so the remote will have to go.
I do like my cars as they came from the plant or as a window sticker tells me. But on the other side; where does originality stops? I can't afford some NOS items anymore and sometimes have to stick to after market replacements (tie rod ends, weather striping etcetc). Most likely wouldn't change the (very) nice remote passenger mirror which is on the wagon now if I hadn't got my hands on a nice non-remote now.

my 2 cents

[Smartin]

Ok guys..

Do you have any suggestions on how to break down the modified section of the forums?

[SBRMD]

Your opinion, my opinion plain and simple. Yes I can say to you "YOU'RE JUST WRONG" just as you are saying to me. I said this type of thing frustrates me - I didn't say you can't do it - I did say "I realize it is the owners car and they can do with them what they want"

There is room for everyone's tastes on a forum, but they need to be kept from blending what's authentic and what is not plain and simple. Other forums have very much outlined areas for various segments of the hobby, maybe we should also.
I guess that is one really positive aspect of clubs like the AACA - there is no tolerance for non-authentic vehicles - they strive to uphold and maintain cars as they were originally meant to be.

Well, in fact what you condescendingly said to me, among other things, was worse,: "If you think...you're sadly mistaken..." (see above); my point is, who appointed you the arbiter and policeman of what others do? To assert that one person's small modification to his car "destroys" the authenticity of another's unmodified car is analogous to a remodeling job of one person's 1920's bungalow, let's just say, to include other features not originally found on it; let's say a modern screen door. Does this "destroy" the authenticity of the unmodified, original bungalow, by the same architect and builder, found right next door? Obviously not, and this is why you are, indeed, just plain wrong. But moreover: you persist in going on to say things like "but they need to be kept from blending what's authentic and what is not plain and simple" (see immediately above). That sounds like an ad from a eugenics campaign! Who's blending anything here? I'm modifying my car, and you're not. My car is inauthentic, and yours isn't. My minor addition of a non-original mirror in no way affects you, and my discussing it on this section of this forum again in no way affects you. Who are you to be keeping anybody from anything, except for perhaps not touching your car?

[SBRMD]

You know, you can make an opinion that the sky is red. That may be your opinion, but it doesn't change the fact that you're wrong.

Unless you're on Mars.

[My3buicks]

You know, you can make an opinion that the sky is red. That may be your opinion, but it doesn't change the fact that you're wrong.

Unless you're on Mars.

Sometimes in the early morning and in the evening the sky is kind of red.:Brow:

So, who is wrong? Maybe you could be wrong about other things also? Just sayin !!

[SBRMD]

Sometimes in the early morning and in the evening the sky is kind of red.:Brow:

So, who is wrong? Maybe you could be wrong about other things also? Just sayin !!

Ha! Nice loophole creation. I think you know what I meant.

How about this, I'm sure you'll feel this one: one of the judges at the next BCA meet, that you've trained, approaches you and says: "Did you see that blue '71 Electra on the show field, in the points-judged area, with the excellent road wheels? It was perfect in every way. I gave it 400!"

His opinion/your opinion? Or just plain wrong?

He goes on to say, "Keith, since your orange convert is an SCO car, and really rare, and while "authentic", really not too representative of run-of the-mill Centurions, I don't think it should be parked on the same show field as the rest of the Centurions, as you already have done. We should park it across the street. Please move it, we don't want this one-off sort of car near our more reasonable examples."

His opinion/your opinion? Or just plain wrong? In fact, intolerant?

[My3buicks]

Easy ones to answer:

Scenario one: Just plain wrong - road wheels are not correct for BCA judging on a 71 Electra, thus a mandatory deduction would be given. Furthermore, any car with a "mandatory" deduction disqualifies it from receiving the highest award - The Senior Award. Even if you took off the Mandatory 10 points and it got 390 which would still in points qualify it as a Senior, the fact that it had Mandatory points deducted disqualifies it from Senior status.

Scenario two: Since the Orange car is factory correct, documented correct and did in fact come from the factory like that, then it would be proper to display it with the point judged cars. (and btw, it would have no Mandatory deductions)

[SBRMD]

Easy ones to answer:

Scenario one: Just plain wrong - road wheels are not correct for BCA judging on a 71 Electra, thus a mandatory deduction would be given. Furthermore, any car with a "mandatory" deduction disqualifies it from receiving the highest award - The Senior Award. Even if you took off the Mandatory 10 points and it got 390 which would still in points qualify it as a Senior, the fact that it had Mandatory points deducted disqualifies it from Senior status.

Scenario two: Since the Orange car is factory correct, documented correct and did in fact come from the factory like that, then it would be proper to display it with the point judged cars. (and btw, it would have no Mandatory deductions)

My point Keith is that neither of these hypotheticals is a "His opinion/my opinion"; I made them up to depict the speaker to be obviously wrong both times. Both times he was giving his opinion. And you have called him wrong both times. Thank you.

[My3buicks]

I said those are easy ones to answer because they both pertained to clear cut written judging rules within the BCA Judging - if you are going to play the game of tripping me up, use scenarios where there actually isnt a right or wrong answer, ones that truly pertain to opinions versus facts.

[SBRMD]

I said those are easy ones to answer because they both pertained to clear cut written judging rules within the BCA Judging - if you are going to play the game of tripping me up, use scenarios where there actually isnt a right or wrong answer, ones that truly pertain to opinions versus facts.

Well, you're missing the point. Not trying to trip you up at all.

The point being, you have absolutely no trouble telling someone they're wrong when it's obvious, when the other person is just giving their opinion.

You can dish it out but you can't take it.

[My3buicks]

You don't know me well, Love Controversy, keep dishing, this is amateur hour :coffee:

[heavycenturion]

Hey guys...! While we're on the subject of mirrors.. ;-)
I mounted a non remote passenger side mirror on my 73 Centurion Conv. (don't know if it's stock or correct, but I do love being able to see what's behind me on that side.)
Here's my question, how do I keep it adjusted? Every time someone closes the passenger door, it moves out of adjusted spot. It is a Buick mirror from a 73 2 door hardtop Centurion. Is there a way to tighten the action on this mirror?

[SBRMD]

How timely:

http://forums.aaca.org/f115/show-car-hot-rod-299986.html

In that current BCA site thread, which includes several notable contributors ssuch as Roberta from Flint (BuickRacer), Bill Stoneberg, and current BCA President Rick Young, relative merits of restoring as show cars vs. hot rods are discussed. Of course, not once is the fascistic notion of "Modifying your car destroys the authenticity and value of my correct car" asserted. Because it doesn't, and because the vast majority of people are just not into that kind of snobbery and jealosy. And these are people with lots of "Collector car experience".

[My3buicks]

Of course, not once is the fascistic notion of "Modifying your car destroys the authenticity and value of my correct car" asserted.

I think if you are to continue with this rant you need to read every one of my posts in this thread and never once will you see me say what you have in your mind I said. You are very good at fabricating what you would like to think I said.

"Modifying your car destroys the authenticity and value of my correct car"- is what you continually post that I said - which unless I am blind I never said

Modifying a car can and will destroy authenticity of that car of course - it can also destroy other cars down the lines authenticity if the owners assume such modifications are correct to that particular make and model. As far as destroying the value of a correct car that's ludecrues, a correct car will almost always have more value han a bastardized one.

So please, do not make up in your mind what you think you would like for me to have said.

[SBRMD]

I think if you are to continue with this rant you need to read every one of my posts in this thread and never once will you see me say what you have in your mind I said. You are very good at fabricating what you would like to think I said.

"Modifying your car destroys the authenticity and value of my correct car"- is what you continually post that I said - which unless I am blind I never said

Modifying a car can and will destroy authenticity of that car of course - it can also destroy other cars down the lines authenticity if the owners assume such modifications are correct to that particular make and model. As far as destroying the value of a correct car that's ludecrues, a correct car will almost always have more value han a bastardized one.

So please, do not make up in your narrow mind what you think you would like for me to have said.

Shoe too tight Keith? I though this was just "amatuer hour" to you, or would you claim that's a misquote or fabrication too? Didn't you invite more dishing?

You keep doing it over and over yourself, to yourself, again just now, right up there about an inch and it's all right here in this thread for all the people on the forum to see, any of my paraphrases notwithstanding. Like a guy who tells racist jokes and then, upon a negative reaction, says "What's wrong with that? What did I say?"

In fact, you're the one who needed, and started to rant. I was just asking the colleagues about how to mount a mirror. But you were "frustrated". Who asked you, anyway?

Regarding narrowness of mind? Who's the one seeking to set divisions for what others do here, and who's the one saying mind your own business? A classis case of psychological projection.

Sad.

But you're the experienced club officeholder. You're just the kind of guy, with the kind of viewpoint and temperament, that needs to be in leadership and training judges.

Not.

[My3buicks]

Shoe to tight? no, I just wanted to make sure you keep the facts and what I said straight and not twist it in your mind. As far as setting divisions, if people have more specific areas to post and read according to their likes and needs and not have to wade through stuff that doesn't interest them, then it's a better forum.

Again, I don't recall mentioning anything about being a club officer????? "Club office holder"(as you call it) and being a "tech advisor and a judge"(what I called it) does not constitute being an office holder, but then we are straining the info through your mind, so maybe so.

I don't believe I stated I trained judges either = maybe you really are delusional????? HELLO, ANYONE HOME ? ?

[SBRMD]

Shoe to tight? no, I just wanted to make sure you keep the facts and what I said straight and not twist it in your mind. As far as setting divisions, if people have more specific areas to post and read according to their likes and needs and not have to wade through stuff that doesn't interest them, then it's a better forum.

Again, I don't recall mentioning anything about being a club officer????? "Club office holder"(as you call it) and being a "tech advisor and a judge"(what I called it) does not constitute being an office holder, but then we are straining the info through your mind, so maybe so.

I don't believe I stated I trained judges either = maybe you really are delusional????? HELLO, ANYONE HOME ? ?

Are not "BCA Tech Advisor" and National Judge" "for many years offices of sorts? Don't advisors generally advise? And don't people who are "National Judges" "for many years" in the BCA generally train others? Such limited thinking.

But why reduce yourself to quibbling about how people interpret your boasts? If you believe in what you say so strongly, then bully for you.

[My3buicks]

Yes advisors advise, and it is to be advise on the proper restoration and preservation of Buicks and Judges do teach both owners and new judges, but they teach as to what is correct to the issue of the Judging an authentic car. The teaching and the hard lesson the owners get is when they find out that the restored car they bought and thought was a show winner actually had any number of incorrect items added (let's just for giggles say a remote passenger mirror) or incorrect features.

I do feel proud and boastful that I have helped many people over the years preserve and restore Buicks to there former and proper glory - that you can take to the bank.

[SBRMD]

Yes advisors advise, and it is to be advise on the proper restoration and preservation of Buicks and Judges do teach both owners and new judges, but they teach as to what is correct to the issue of the Judging an authentic car. The teaching and the hard lesson the owners get is when they find out that the restored car they bought and thought was a show winner actually had any number of incorrect items added (let's just for giggles say a remote passenger mirror) or incorrect features.

I do feel proud and boastful that I have helped many people over the years preserve and restore Buicks to there former and proper glory - that you can take to the bank.

You most obviously do.

And it's the responsibility of the buyer of a "restored" car to know what he's buying, especially to spot modifications and/or additions before purchase. Not the responsibility of the prior owner to think, as he wants to have a safer mirror on the passenger side of his car, "I better not do this so that the next guy can get more points at the meet." And it is certainly not the responsibility, portfolio, or even right of club members to function as jealous watchdogs of others.

My very original 36,000 mile '49 Roadmaster Sedanette has, ironically, a pair of incorrect outisde mirrors on the doors, that I hate and will have to remove and fill holes from when the time comes. Do I wish they weren't there? Yes. Did it keep me from buying the car? No, just another factor on the pro/con list. Would I ever even intimate that the prior owner did something wrong? No. The presence of the mirrors is my problem, not his.

[My3buicks]

Safer? In what way - I have a correct mirror on my 72's passenger door and it functions as it should.

Jealous?? of what?? That's just silly.

Didn't realize this site was a club???? Thought it was a forum.

Actually, a forum about Centurions, hhhmmm, I stop and ponder.

[SBRMD]

Safer? In what way - I have a correct mirror on my 72's passenger door and it functions as it should.

Jealous?? of what?? That's just silly.

Didn't realize this site was a club???? Thought it was a forum.

Actually, a forum about Centurions, hhhmmm, I stop and ponder.

Again, such limited, concrete thinking. Your mother would be so proud. You just show everybody over and over. Check Webster's then ponder more.

You better tell Adam that next time he does anything with one of his non-Centurion Buicks, he better not talk about it on his own site, according to the Laws of Keithworld.

Later much.