Ok, it's a love... hate thing, right!?!! [Archive]

dewbers

09-13-2010, 10:30 AM

Hey fella's... I am sitting here just wondering.
I wonder what I'd be doing right now if I had sold my Centurion back in the spring like I thought about?
I wonder what I'm going to do now, since I didn't sell it and I blew at least one head over the weekend?
I wonder if I should just do a top end rebuild or a complete rebuild?
I wonder if I should rebuild the motor or buy a rebuilt one or even a used one?
I wonder if I should modify it all?
:tonge2:

You got it guys... 120,783 miles and she gave up on my Friday night. Just cruising along at 40mhp, slowing down to make a turn, coming to a stop... and she died on me. Got her to start back up and was able to limp her to my buddies place (his house was closer than mine, and he's my mechanic) before she totally crapped out. So, we/he played around with her on Saturday and found she was dumping just a ton of water out of the tailpipes... block is full of water. So, what am I to do?
Would love some input. Doesn't make sense to me to do a partial rebuild when there are this many miles on it. I'm all ears. I need/want some advice.

I love this car and what it's come to mean to my family, but right now, I am hating it. I suppose that's normal. But it's my first time through it.

Thanks!

73 Centurion

09-13-2010, 02:16 PM

It is a love hate thing, it's also a royal bummer when they pull a stunt like that.

Since you only have 120 thousand miles and you're not looking to push the performance envelope I'd look into fixing the problem instead of an all out rebuilt. When the heads are off your mechanic can see if there's reason to rebuild the lower end. The big question is why did the head go? Was it just a gasket, did the bolts loosen over time, did something go wrong in the camshaft or timing chain?

Sorry to hear about the problems you're having. It's always worse when your imagination is running loose. When you find out what happened you'll know what to do.

John

2mnykars

09-13-2010, 02:23 PM

Sorry to hear about the head gasket. It happened to me a couple of times on different cars (1 centurion). As was mentioned, if you’re not looking for just driving it, then you can have the heads removed, have the block checked to see if it needs rebuilding and get a good set of head gaskets, heads rebuilt, and some ARP head bolts.

You can also get a stock rebuilt motor which shouldn’t be too expensive either but it depends on whether you intend to keep her for the long haul or short term.

dewbers

09-13-2010, 04:32 PM

You can also get a stock rebuilt motor which shouldn’t be too expensive either but it depends on whether you intend to keep her for the long haul or short term.

Tell me more on this...

dewbers

09-13-2010, 04:32 PM

You can also get a stock rebuilt motor which shouldn’t be too expensive either but it depends on whether you intend to keep her for the long haul or short term.

Tell me more on this...

centurion 455 ragtop

09-13-2010, 06:08 PM

Steve

Before going a step further. Sit down and write a few question down or discuss things with your better half. I would assume you will not be doing the rebuilding or repair work which will effect your decision. So your next point is your liking to the car. If you really have no intentions on selling it at least for the next few years (except for financial or health problems) then we move to the next level.

If you have no long term intentions (like selling it within two years, then just have it repaired. Or store it and sell it as is.

If you plan on keeping her your next factor is budget. If your budget is tight, then just have it repaired. One good thing is winter is around the corner and having an engine rebuilt spread over the winter can ease some budget woes too.

I am not sure what Buick gurus are in your area, but a standard rebuild with a good valve job would not be difficult to have done. MAKE SURE THE ENGINE BUILDER HAS EXPERIENCE WITH BUICK ENGINES this does make a huge difference. I had an engine wipe out all the cam bearings on break because the engine builder did not set up the front cam bearing properly, it is quite different from a Chevy. That was a huge and costly shame on me for not checking it.

I will take a guestimate stab at it saying having an engine rebuilt and installed would run somewhere between 3 to $4,500. This of course you doing no wrenching and that is having it installed and broken in. When I rebuilt my 455 some 5 years back the add ons I did was the larger Stage One valves, and a mild towing cam (more low end torque) I did have the block bored 30 over and replaced the pistons with stock cast replacements (cheapest). ARP bolts are a good idea and are not that expensive. The machine shop did all the machine work and I did the assembly and installation. My cost was around $1,800 (included the cost of having the heads done over which I did not do)

Steve its a tough call unless you are heads over heals with the car having no plans on selling. With a new engine there will be no worries on heading out for a 300+ mile trek. We been going out just about every Sunday the summer cruising the back roads, & small towns etc, upstate New York and in PA, clocking about 100 to 150 miles each shot. Never have a worry and she runs perfect.

Now on a flip side if the engine seems intact and was in good running condition, you can just do the head gasket no need to do the other side. Let me guess it was the AC side? Have your mechanic give it a good looking over.

Tough call but if the engine was running real good then do the head gasket and start researching the costs of a rebuild down the road, slowly collecting parts.
Keep up posted, any questions just ask.

Gum,beest

09-13-2010, 09:50 PM

Steve
Sad to hear about your car
Had the same thing with my wifes car (VW) normal driving and then started using water
I had the head rebuild and machined and replaced the cambeld and waterpump now the car runs just fine with about 150000 miles on it
So i would go for the easiest option pull the head(s) clean them and replace the head gasket and replace the bolts
Then you can drive again and in the meantime start building some funds to do a complete rebuild in the time of your choosing

Smartin

09-13-2010, 11:08 PM

I'm literally going through the same thing with a friend's 72 Skylark. He called me one day complaining about overheating, and we went through the usual crap. I told him it sounded like his cooling system was getting pressurized when it was running. I told him to check and change the oil. He called me an hour later and said a half gallon of water came out of the pan before any oil dropped out.

I have it in my garage right now, drivers head off. Looks ok so far. I will pull the passenger side head and take them to the machine shop to be checked out. Hopefully for both of us, it's only a head issue. Those are easy compared to ripping the engine out (to me, anyway).

The German

09-14-2010, 03:07 AM

Back in 1986 I had such a problem with a BMW 520 which had 88kmiles. It was half way from Berlin (ca.200 miles from home) when water temperature went up and I stoped looking for the reason. The water was pressed out of the overflow canister and had oil in it, but there was no water in the oil and the engine still had enough oil. It was night (ca. 10:30) and so I started the engine again, drove to the next station, cooled the radiator with water from outside then slowly opened the radiator and filled it up with water. I took some empty bottles, filled them with water and started driving home again - slowly of course. Every ca. 30 or 50 miles I looked for the water and filled it up again and for the oil which was good until I came home.

It tuned out that the engines head was broken. I could get a cheap used one and let it installed. This way I drove that car some more years without any problems.

So, if it´s a head gasket or a broken head, Steve, I´m sure you will get it fixed for not too much money. This and an oil change will hopefully do it and your baby is good for years on the road again. First wait what the mechanics will tell you about the reason for your problem, then let´s talk about possibilities again. - But keep cool man ! Heaven has still not fallen down !!!

dewbers

09-14-2010, 09:37 AM

But keep cool man ! Heaven has still not fallen down !!!

Great advice and insight Rolf! You are very correct my friend... all things considered, this is just a little ole' bump in the road!
Thanks Rolf!

Rick - if I sold it, it wouldn't be a financial decision. The car is paid for. It only costs me the annual maintenance, which has been pretty high this year! :shocked: A couple of tanks of gas and about $240 annually for the insurance. So all in all, she's not a money pit, normally. If I could sell her at a profit or even break even, I might consider, but with the economy as it is, that's doubtful. Plus, this thing has become part of our family. It would be brutal to give her up. My 3 boys are already arguing about who gets her and my daughter says, there is no argument, she gets to keep it. (She's 7...) So, I may not ever be able to sell it!

So do I bite off about $750 and fix the problem or bite off a few grand and rebuild her? I wish had a crystal ball...

And thanks to the rest of you as well. I'll get back with more info...

2mnykars

09-14-2010, 10:37 AM

and if you go with the fixing the problem, you can always remove the parts youself (the heads) and then take them to the machine shop and have them examined as well as have the block examined at that time. This could be a money savings tip. Just make sure to keep everything in order. You can then have the mechanic put it bag together once you've got the heads back, the OK on the block, new gaskets, ARP BOLTS, maybe an edelbrock intake since your there and he can put it back together. Just an FYI...

As for where I acquired my motors, I acquired a few in a few different places.

#1. I once purchased a STOCK rebuilt 455 from Kragens/Chucks stores. The downside to this is that it is a complete STOCK rebuild and you they charge a core fee if you don't turn your old block in (why I would keep). It was less than $2k for a rebuilt motor. The motor sounded like a sewing machine (quiet) but it was very reliable. Just don't expect any performance gains.

#2. I acquired a motor was online from a running car (eg.. craigslist.org) This is cheapest but you'll have to diagnose and ensure the car is in good running condition. Cheaper route but then again you don't really know the history of the car.

#3 option. I signed up for a class at the local junior college and learned to build a buick 455 in class. Paid only for the parts and learned on my own personal motor. This was funnest but the longest yet I was able to spend extra $$ on the good stuff and complete extra machine work on the motor with the guidance of the teacher.

As for your scenario, I think fixing the problem may be the route to go especially when you have children, mortgage, etc... maybe put some $$ aside for a rebuild later on since you don't drive it everyday... gaskets tend to fail with age.... Good Luck and let me know if you have any further questions.

EEE

09-14-2010, 05:51 PM

sorry to hear this Steve.. Do you have space to keep it garaged and worked on, or would it have to be towed to a garage for the work to be done? I'd say take the head off and see if it's just a gasket, if you're lucky you can just put it back together again and it won't cost you that much.

centurion 455 ragtop

09-14-2010, 07:22 PM

Steve if the motor was running fine before, maybe its best just getting it repaired. What you can do if your concerned on redoing the engine, scout around pick a good engine builder plan it out and start a slush fund for it. If I was living down your way I would gladly give a hand fixing her.

Robroy

09-15-2010, 12:08 PM

Hi Steve,

I know the feeling when stuff like this happen.
Still remember the day when the transmission on my former BMW broke down. It was the day before Christmas Eve and I was on my way to meet my mother and brother to proudly show them the most expensive car I had ever owned when it happened.
I confronted the seller at the dealership where I had bought it a few weeks earlier that was a slick sleaze ball that I’d never wanted to do business with in the first place, but my better half couldn’t wait to get her hands on the car so…..you get the picture.
I got the dealer to cover 25% of the repair cost but still ended up paying 3000 dollar from my own pocket. My first thought then was to sell it in since I didn’t stand seeing the darn thing, but I came to my senses and actually ended up keeping it for nine years in which it served me well.
Moral of the story is to not rush into any hasty decisions based on feelings.

When it comes to tackle your problem I think most already have been said by the other guys.

I have to agree with Adam that I prefer a blown head gasket compared with for ex a bad bearing. Taking off the heads is fairly straight forward, at least the driver’s side. Passengers side might be a bit trickier if you got AC but probably doable as well.

I took off the head on my parents Volvo when I was 17, then brought it to school (car mechanic education) restored it and put it back on at home in our garage. It still surprises me a LOT that they let me do that mum being very cautious with their cars. My dad was happy though getting away with only paying for some gaskets and the engine running like a charm.

I was NOT the handy type and had learned zero from my dad who was totally uninterested in technical stuff. I lived on my stubbornness and will to learn. I did pick up a lot from the car mechanic school of course and from friends that had the same interest, but it was still often uphill doing major surgery on my own, at least the first years.
Moral of this story is that you can do a lot more than you think you can IF you have the time, the interest and some helpful friends.

So in your shoes I would, take my time, try and find somebody to help you pull the heads and then take it from there figuring out why the gasket blew in the first place.
Depending on the inside of the engine I would then decide to go for a complete engine rebuild or not. Hopefully you will get away with some new head gaskets and maybe have the heads done having them off anyway.

dewbers

09-17-2010, 02:57 PM

Turns out it may not be my heads or head gaskets? My guy is looking at the the front end of the motor... timing chain area, possibly crank? Help me understand this...
The water and the oil are mixing... blowing smoke through the carb... dip stick is showing water mix... valves are showing a milk shake mixture...
He's quoting me $2k for a rebuild, which isn't terrible.
Thoughts on this?

centurion 455 ragtop

09-17-2010, 06:56 PM

DON"T DO NOTHING YET CALL ME ASAP

Steve how good do you know this guy? If he is not a good friend get your car out of there! Two grand is not bad but 2 grand is bad when an engine only needs a head gasket. Water gets into the block and mixes with the oil either from a cracked head or head gasket. PERIOD. Unless your motor broke inside cracking the block. If you blew the engine you would know it. If you continue to run the engine with water in the block you run the chance of wasting the bearings so I hope he is not doing this. Plus a good mechanic should explain things to you in normal jargin that you can fully understand.

Steve some years back when I owned a 73 Riv GS I blew a head gasket and hurried home late at night. All the idiot lights were on and flashing Of course the idiot behind the wheel (me) kept going and made it home. Next day took the head off and there was no other damage but a head gasket. I did luck out cause I risked burning a valve or two. What I am saying these engines can take a lot of rough street duty.

Steve I just got off the phone with another Buick racing friend Doug Hecker and he agreed either your missing some of his story or he is selling you some BS. We do know an excellent engine builder and mechanic in Delaware, Doug Dorrrity (I killed his last name) I will get his number and address. THis guy has his own shop and has helped fellow Buick guys in the past and is a long time member of the NE Buick GS/GN Club

Steve if you want to call and talk my home number is 845-228-9894 if you don't get me I will call you back asap. Its Friday and I'll be up till midnight, Saturday I will be doing the entire front suspension on my Centurion from 8:30 to 12:30 pm at John Csordas's shop (another big Buick Guru mechanic, you can reach me on my cell 845-406-0633. This sounds very fishy unless you are missing something he told you. And trust me I wasted my share of engines so I do know what causes them and what to look at when they go bad.

THere is nothing on the front of the engine that can cause a water leak into the block other than the heads or gaskets. Unless the block is cracked, but blocks do not just crack under normal driving conditions.

Smartin

09-17-2010, 09:46 PM

The timing cover can absolutely leak coolant into the crankcase, and so can the intake gasket.

centurion 455 ragtop

09-17-2010, 10:02 PM

Adam I do agree. Its just that thought did not enter my mind as I cannot think of ever hearing that before happening on a street (not race ) driven engine. Maybe if the cover or intake was off recently and re-installed incorrectly with a bad gasket seal, but in this case that engine wasn't apart as least what I know. I just find it very odd. Over the years on beating the snot out of my many street/strip engines I never had a timing cover gasket or an intake gasket let go, unless it was from me doing a poor job on installing one.

We need more on this story from Steve. Like I said either he has not gotten the full explanation or there is something smelly in Denmark (figure of speech my over seas friends)

Smartin

09-17-2010, 10:08 PM

Right Rick...we're battling that problem with Gehmbo's car (on the v8 board) here in my garage. Lots of slow leaking coolant, but not visible head gasket leak. I think it's from the intake, but wanted to pull the heads to make sure we had no cracks.

I remember some issues with lifters when I did an inspection on the car before Steve bought it. They said they were going to install new ones...but I don't remember anything else about that part of the story. Maybe Steve can fill in the rest?

centurion 455 ragtop

09-17-2010, 10:25 PM

What is strange too is the way it is explained the leak was fast and not a slow leak, which like you mentioned above is plausible, maybe from years of corrosion eating the gasket away causes a slow leak or a porous part of the head decides to well be porous causing a slow leak. But a gusher from what he explained seems to be something drastically let go.

Good tech discussion, now we just need Steve. lol

Just an add on: I went back and re-read his first post. He mentioned water filled up the cylinder (hydro-locked the engine) Would I be wrong to figure that would be a head gasket a likely culprit, or an intake gasket. On the extreme side; part of the head became porous or a cracked cylinder wall.

On a lighter note, that low mileage (something like 45K) Electra I grabbed the cruise off of. Well tomorrow morning we are swapping out the entire front steering linkage along with the steering box (mine leaks). Also checking the rear, if its a 3.08 we will be swapping out my 2.73 rear.

Smartin

09-18-2010, 07:09 AM

EEE

09-18-2010, 11:42 AM

If it hydrolocked it could bend the rods since the water can't compress, and the car wouldn't run at all? Sounds like something happened first since it was limped back to the garage and it is spewing water out the tail pipes. I'm guessing a gasket has gone since it was still driveable, and there haven't been any noises to indicate mechanical damage. Hopefully the water going around hasn't completely locked the engine by now (not sure what crapped out at the garage means?), but since the mechanic says he can rebuild it for $2k it's probably still in decent shape.

centurion 455 ragtop

09-18-2010, 11:54 AM

If it hydrolocked that fast, I would be inclined to believe it's in the head somewhere. Either a crack or a major gasket blowout. Possibly a dropped valve seat? (that happened to be covering a hole in the waterjacket when they machined the heads) ...that one might not be so plausible, but is still possible.

Just got back working on the Centurion. This 1973 Electra has 44,500 original miles on it. We swapped out the power steering pump and gear box, along with the tie rods. Next week we're going to swap out the rear being mine has a gazillion miles on it. Also the rotors are in excellent shape never been cut! Anyway the engine on this car runs great! Could be a cheap way out for Steve. A complete running 44K engine. Just needs to be detailed and installed. We are all going to be at Cecil County, MD the weekend of Oct 3rd (exit 100 off 95) for the Buick races. Also there are other usual parts John will be selling on it. It has a real nice remote driver side mirror and non pitted headlight bezels (they are different from the Centurions). The dash wood grain pieces and a working am/fm stereo.

Anyway I quoted you Adam, because John Csordas said the same thing as you did and as Kimson said a possible bent valve, maybe the guy pulled the timing cover and pan and saw some major damage was done when the engine hydro-locked. But again we need our Star Host poster here : )

birminghamer

09-18-2010, 01:50 PM

73 Centurion

09-27-2010, 01:37 PM

Hi Steve,

You'll need that head looked over carefully either way you go. So I suggest you pull the head off and see if you can find the problem.

When the head is off you can begin looking for other problems. They should be able to measure the cylinder walls and see if any are out of round, scratched or otherwise in need of work. If they are fine you can pull the oil pan and have the main bearings checked. If those check out reinstall the head and perform a leak down test. That will tell you how well the cylinders are holding pressure.

If the cylinders are fine, the bearings are good and the rings are holding pressure I wouldn't recommend rebuilding the engine. If your engine is on the point of collapse and in need of a rebuild there will be evidence of it and you'll know it's time to do the whole engine.

If you rebuild the top end now you won't need to do it again if you decide to rebuild the lower end later. You'll lose the money for labor but the top end will come apart easier and it won't require any work. The $1,000 you spend now will not be entirely lost, some will reduce the price of a full rebuild later. If that's the route you take.

John

dewbers

09-29-2010, 10:12 PM

Heads aren't blown. Head gaskets aren't blown. Says on the front of motor around where the timing chain is... it's leaking somehow into the block. My oil looks like a chocolate milk shake. Says the seal that is up there is compromised or the metal seperating them is compromised.
Any thoughts? We're going to tear down the front end early next week...

centurion 455 ragtop

09-29-2010, 11:09 PM

Well I'm mift. Unless the car was abused or badly neglected I just cannot figure how this can be. Neglected, that the coolant was never changed and corroded the seal around the water intake ports from the block to the timing cover on the inside of the cover. Or no anti freeze and you cracked something from extreme cold or heat.

Did your guy do a leak down test on the engine and a pressure test on the radiator? I would recommend that prior to ripping apart the engine. As your could have a cracked head or bad intake gasket, though same as the timing cover gasket I cannot see how in normal conditions an intake gasket going.

Below is a photo of the inside view of a new 455 timing cover. The square water port (outlined in white) on the far left most likely would be an external leak. The square water port on the right (outlined in white) would have to have the gasket fail causing water to leak on the inside. The gasket is one piece and usually if replaced a small amount of silicone is used with the gasket. The bolt holes around those water ports also should have some silicone on them as they go into the water jackets inside the block. If they break or need to be heated to remove then I would say the gasket corroded as with the bolts, but if the bolts come out with no problems I would say its not the gasket. The ports outlined in brown are to the oil pump going into the block. The shiny metal shaft is the oil pump which is slotted into the base of the distributor that slides in directly above it (round hole). The square hole on the inside left is where the fuel pump is connected.

The 2nd bottom photo is the front view of the cover with the water pump removed.

Sorry for saying this, but if you have taken care of this car ( I kind of figured that she has lived a pampered life with you) and she showed no signs of previous abuse or neglect, I just cannot see this being the problem. Hope this sheds some light and helps. Please let us know what you find.

Robroy

09-30-2010, 06:38 AM

Rick, reading your very describing post about the inside of the Timing Cover makes you realize that it’s so much more than just a Timing Cover on a Buick 455!

Steve, hope the root cause for your problem can be found soon. Feels like it’s getting closer and closer

centurion 455 ragtop

09-30-2010, 06:57 AM

Per

The timing covers main downfall on our older cars is that the two oil pump gears wear out the inside of timing cover housing part where the oil pump attaches to. This causes a constant loss of oil pressure. Companies like TA Performance and Mellings make a thrust plate with larger gears and a new pump cover. Its not expensive (around $60 USC) but needs care on installation as you have to gap clearances of the gears. This pump with the thrust plate makes up for that worn inside timing cover. That is why on guys who race the 455 search for covers with less wear. I bought this cover (shown) last year with a new pump for $400 and will be using it if I build a race motor that uses a stock oil pump. (my current race engine has an external racing oil pump instead).

Also on the water pump side of the cover this too can wear down that you would not get the maximum cooling. For street applications though I would not worry too much about this as most of us install larger radiators and electric fans.

centurion 455 ragtop

09-30-2010, 06:57 AM

Robroy

09-30-2010, 07:13 AM

Definitely interesting stuff, especially that thrust plate with larger gears and a new pump cover seems like a very sound investment whenever having the cover off!:xyxthumbs:

Didn’t mean to hijack your thread Steve, sorry:o

dewbers

09-30-2010, 10:59 AM

No sweat fella's... I learned some stuff too.
Rick - two things... yes, she's lived a pampered life since I've owned her. She's not wanted for ANYTHING! And she showed ZERO signs of this prior to when it happened. And bud, it just happened. I drove her all day that day. Had no issues or signs of trouble. When it happened, I had just slowed down from cruising at like 50 miles per hour for about 20 minutes. I was slowing to make a turn. When I slowed, she shuddered and died out. Right there and then. Again, No hints of trouble. I got her started and she was shuddering and stuttering for about a block. Blowing some smoke. (darker, not lighter) I was just a few minutes from my mechanic, so I just drove her straight there. Parked it for the night. He started it the next day, experienced the same thing... No white smoke. He called a big Buick guy and they talked it out and came up with this as a possibility. My second question is whether you'd be willing to speak to Jerry (Mechanic) personally. I could go over there and call you so we'd all three be right there. I told him about you and a few others on here who know these machines inside and out. Told him you've rebuilt them personally. He's fine with it and maybe you two talking would allow a sounding board in real time, rather than this... Let me know. I'll make it work at your convenience.

John, Per and the rest of you... thanks for all your help and advice. I think we're getting closer, but then again, won't know till we really figure it out... Damn! Frustrating!

73 Centurion

10-01-2010, 11:17 AM

I'm fascinated by this problem. If the timing cover gasket failed it would let antifreeze into the oil, but why would that cause the engine to die? If the heads and head gaskets are fine why does it run rough?

I wonder if something happened to the oil pump and that caused a problem with the distributor.

I can't wait to hear the answer to this riddle.

John

dewbers

11-01-2010, 02:05 PM

Steve,

At the risk of being stoned by the rest of the forum let me know if you have any interest in selling your car "as is". I would welcome challenge to preserve this really beautiful car.

Thanks

Glenn

Glenn - I have to say that I am not in a big hurry to sell at this point, but what did you have in mind?!?!
Thanks!

dewbers

11-01-2010, 03:03 PM

Ok fella's... it appears the timing chain cover / water pump / oil pump was comprised...
The metal between them rusted out. (for the lack of a better word) So, the oil and the anti-freeze mixed with each other and went through the entire engine... So it looks like we'll just need to rebuild the front portion of the motor. According to my guy, the to pieces are ajoined. The metal that seperates them broke down and the two fluids mixed and went into the block. We're now shopping for parts.

Ask me questions. I'll do the best I can.

Anyone have a timing cover ???

Smartin

11-01-2010, 05:54 PM

I just repaired a 72 Skylark with nearly the same problem. The gasket between the timing cover and block was completely rotted away, causing oil and coolant mix...big time.

Find a good used timing cover (but I highly recommend TA's complete cover and oil pump) and get it back together...you'll be back in business.

75RivGS

11-02-2010, 02:36 AM

and guess what happened to the timing cover of the 75 Riviera last weekend, just after I was going over all the post in this thread.....
Engine died within 1/2 mile after start. Running on propane that probably means the level of the coolant is too low for the propane convertor. So opened the hood where I found , as expected, a frozen convertor and the coolant level too low. Looked for any leaks in the cooling sysytem. Checked hoses, clamps, radiator, but in the end found a puddle of coolant just behind the distributor. :(
Luckily I do have another complete timing cover (but lacking time to even start this project)

The German

11-02-2010, 03:27 AM

Ok fella's... it appears the timing chain cover / water pump / oil pump was comprised...
The metal between them rusted out. (for the lack of a better word) So, the oil and the anti-freeze mixed with each other and went through the entire engine... So it looks like we'll just need to rebuild the front portion of the motor. ... ... ...

So it´s "only" an easier problem with your engine and you should be back on the road soon, Steve. Hope you are back to optimism now and will keep her as she will be better than before and will bring back the joy of "let the wind rush through your hair" with 2011´s spring !

dewbers

11-02-2010, 11:21 AM

Yeah, thanks fella's... I'm hoping this is all there is to the story!
Adam - TA's? Tell me where to find this before I place an order with JEGS or Buick Farm. Please.
Rob - how odd is that? Wow. I've never heard of this before and now you, me and Adam all experienced it.
Rolf - thanks my man. I'm hoping to get her back on the road a few more this season before it's time to put her away!
John, Rick and the rest - thanks for all the input fella's. Really appreciate you guys chipping in with thoughts, idea's and suggestions.
Rick - you really had hard time getting your arms around this with me. I guess I did a lousy job of describing the problems. I really appreciate your posts and emails and offers. Hope this is making more sense now!
Appreciate you all! :)

Gum,beest

11-02-2010, 11:38 AM

Hi Steve
Here is the link to the timingcover at the TA performance website http://www.taperformance.com/proddetail.asp?prod=TA%5F1531B
don't forget to order a gasket as well and perhaps a new waterpump
Good to hear that the problem is nearly solved

Gum,beest

11-02-2010, 11:38 AM

75RivGS

11-02-2010, 04:47 PM

While revving the engine coolant squirts out between head and cover:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5H4H3izDlwU

Smartin

11-02-2010, 05:23 PM

www.taperformance.com

Warm up the credit card! You won't be sorry, though. It's absolute top quality, and will be a savior for your oil pressure.

Don't bother with the timing cover Jegs sells...it's a Chinese knock off of TA's part.

dewbers

11-05-2010, 10:08 PM

EEE

11-06-2010, 10:36 PM

Steve, I have a used cover I can send you for free. I remember you helping me out when I was down on my luck and what goes around comes around. Just give me your address and I'll have it sent out. Your mechanic might have to move the oil pump over from your cover, not sure. Glad to hear it wasn't worse....

centurion 455 ragtop

11-07-2010, 01:39 AM

Sounds like a good deal for the cove. I would just buy a new oil pump with a thrust plate from either TA or Mellings. Don't mess with the old one. They are fairly cheap.

http://www.fastengineparts.com/products_view.php?id=1176

http://www.taperformance.com/products.asp?cat=179

centurion 455 ragtop

11-07-2010, 01:39 AM

dewbers

11-08-2010, 03:48 PM

Kimson - thanks... really appreciate it. Is yours in good shape? I have ordered one, but if yours will work, I will consider. What's it from?
Thanks Rick - ordered it from TA. May have her back by weeks end!!

EEE

11-08-2010, 07:55 PM

It's been in the garage for like three years, probably come from a 72 Electra or similar. I'll go down and take a look at it. Stay tuned..

EEE

11-08-2010, 09:17 PM

Looks good, no corrosion. Needs a good cleaning, and some gasket residue removed. Looked over the threads and they visually look good. The oil pump is there so no need to worry about that. I believed I took this as a replacement for the 455 on my car since it spit out the fuel pump a few times which was kind of interesting on the freeway.. Let me know if you want it and I'll box it up and send it your way.

centurion 455 ragtop

11-08-2010, 09:48 PM

Looks good. A good cleaning a little paint, install the new oil pump, a new water pump and front oil seal and your back in business

dewbers

11-16-2010, 04:45 PM

Kimson... I appreciate you, but I bought a new one and it's almost done. Not that I didn't want to wait, but he (my mechanic) had a few couple of days and wanted to get this thing done, or close to it. So, we ordered the one... sorry and thanks! You were very generous.
Might have it back by this weekend fella's... Will keep you posted.
Really appreciate all the input, advice and support.

Robroy

11-21-2010, 03:13 PM

Hey Steve, glad to hear that the luck has turned for you!

Really nice gesture from Kimson offering you a free timing cover :xyxthumbs:
Looking forward to the post when you are back in business again! :beers:

Robroy

11-21-2010, 04:09 PM

While revving the engine coolant squirts out between head and cover:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5H4H3izDlwU

Interesting!
I use to get a very small amount of coolant in that very same pocket when the car had been standing still longer periods. This was in during the first winter I owned it, when I started to drive the car more frequent it stopped and has since

dewbers

11-30-2010, 03:43 PM

It's baaaaaaaaaaaaaaack...... The beast lives!!!!

Guys, the advice and input you offered was phenomenal. Honestly could not have gotten this done with out all. I wish we lived close enough so I could thank you properly, but as circumstances would have it, this will have to do.......
http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff78/SavoryTina/Thank%20You%20Tags/Fantastic%20Awesome%20Job/21cid5F002901c7c8b024da2537e0246401.gif

Appreciate you fellas more than you know!!

EEE

11-30-2010, 07:43 PM

Excellent!!! And the damages wasn't that bad either..

centurion 455 ragtop

11-30-2010, 10:40 PM

Yep! EXCELLENT!! And the weather is still mild so you may be able to enjoy some of the last good remaining days left in 2010 cruising around.

The German

12-01-2010, 04:07 AM

Hey, I´m so glad and lucky with you, Steve, and with all your family members who surely were scared of the beast´s illness too !
Couldn´t help you with advices but had you in my mind wishing the things would turn right for you and your helpers.

Now that you won this battle I hope you became strong enough to withstand all thoughts around selling your special black beauty. Guess cruising during the last nice days of the year will help you; so enjoy life with her by letting the wind rush through your hair again ... ! (I love these last words - which you once wrote here - and often when I have that feeling while driving my car in sunny weather I remember them with a smile - also just now ! :o )

Take care, Steve, and have a nice rest of this year !